What is here?

What is happening for you?

I appreciate what you're saying, I kind of feel that there are two worlds that run... One is the being world, one is the doing world.... and they run parallel with each other.

What is seeing this, now?

It's a feeling, because it's something I've been looking at, or being in more. Everything you say correlates, and I receive it and accept it, ... I guess it's just the mind that trips me up, the mind that comes in and takes me out of the being...

What is it that gets tripped?

It's identification. It's trying to make something different which I can't. I don't have that power.

What knows this?

The heart, or the being... Because I know ultimately it is that. But I still feel I'm like a puppet on a string.

What is aware of the puppet? When you are feeling like you are a puppet, being moved by some power, what is seeing that? What are you right now, what's aware of you right now?

Right now, I'm... [crying]

What are you afraid of right now?

It's like a holding in the heart... [crying] and, um... a fire's been burning in me for a very long time... and it's stronger now...

What is holding onto it?

It's a fear of not knowing... it's permeable... it moves and changes shape.

Introduce me, not just to the pain, to the one who feels this pain. To show your pain, you've just done that, but introduce me to that in which pain is being perceived. Slow down. We're not in a hurry. Something is conveying an overview, a viewing of this pain. From where is the seeing of this pain coming?

It's from a sense of being... a sense of spaciousness.

Yes. What about just letting that pain, whatever it is, just be there for now? We're not going to interfere with that. Just let it be there for now, and just pay attention to that in which the pain has made its appearance. Remember, we're not trying to control the pain now.

It just feels like a sense of space in there.

Yes. Go with the space... and see where you come to the edge of that space, to its boundary. Is there a boundary to that space? Where is it? Go to the boundary of that space and be on the boundary. What is over there? Is there no space beyond the boundary?

There's plenty of space.

And in the space also, what is it like being in this space?

Just emptiness, really.

And where are you, what are you, in this space?

Just being with it, it is.

What is it that's just being with it? What are your measurements here, what are your vital statistics here?

[Laughing] It's kind of empty. There's no mind.

Yes. So what's the difference between you who are empty and that which is empty?

[Laughing] No difference.

You see. Where is this smile coming from?