Dialogues: Emptiness


Mooji:This emptiness is not a trivial thing. It’s the most supreme state. But in the consciousness there is this itching, and I use this term: the athlete’s foot mind. In the mind the thought is coming, there is this itching, and it feels it needs a scratch, you know. Like a question arising, something more to be solved, or resolved. But I say: only stay as this, and that itchiness will subside. When this itchiness is there, there is the temptation to start to scratch it, but it just makes it more bloody and awful. So just take note of that for the moment. But stay as you are. Because you cannot improve this emptiness. So many of the beings are longing to be this emptiness, to return to this emptiness, you see, consciously. When you go to sleep, you leave all your cares and your concerns about yourself and your life. And you love to be without these concerns. How much money we spend on the bed, on the bedroom, to get the best sleep so you can forget everything ! And when the waking arises there is refreshment in the being, you see, because it puts away all these concerns. This emptiness that you speak of now seemed eclipsed by your concerns and where you put your attention, and while you’re attending to your concerns and activities and affairs of life, then you’re being disturbed actually. So a little bit of meditation or self-enquiry returns you to this affirmation in yourself, this recognition: all there is is just a sort of emptiness, beyond the concept of empty even.
So can you step out of this emptiness now ?

Q:Not willingly. I know I can. I never tried to escape…

M:In the emptiness, what are you ? Are you IN the emptiness like you are in this room, or are you the emptiness ?
See, if you say you’re in something, then there is like two: there is a sense I and a sense I’m in something. It’s the point I’m driving at, because if you feel you’re in, then emptiness becomes kind of an experience, and you remain as the experiencer, and there’s a sort of duality in that. So it makes possible the sense of leaving it, it becomes much more alive and real, a possibility. That’s why I’m asking you: in the emptiness what are you ? What form do you wear in emptiness ? Are you in it, or are you it ?

Q:I’m it.

M:So if you are how can you step out ?

Q:Something comes and covers it. Garbage.

M:You see, if you are on earth, you can say: a cloud covers the sun. But the sun doesn’t know covering. It doesn’t know the sensation I am covered up.

Q:OK. So that’s important who is seeing.

M:Yes. When you say I’m covered up, it’s as though I’m hidden from myself. I’m just getting you to look at it, it’s very important actually. It’s just through this subtle overlooking that this pain creeps in, this sense of separation, this sense of split in yourself. But when you really investigate it, it’s exposed as a kind of fraud. You are just you. Yesterday we spoke about it, that the knife can cut so many things but it cannot cut itself because it is itself. And the eye can see so many things, but it cannot see itself because it is itself. And a scale can weigh so many things but it cannot weigh itself because it is itself. And you are yourself, you cannot perceive yourself. You can only perceive some idea of yourself. You are this unicity, you see. There is no split in you. Only by this function of the consciousness it appears as though you become something qualitative, something you can evaluate. But whatever you can see it cannot be you.

Q:Emptiness as well ?

M:Emptiness is only an idea at the present moment. A word in the consciousness. But it points to something actually that you intuitively feel. It’s like the emptiness perceiving the emptiness somehow. Or consciousness perceiving consciousness. There is not really a form being observed in this. There is no words really adequate to convey. At this point you are at the very periphery of language even, and the words are exhausting the energy of themselves, because no words will do. Just this acknowledgement I am, but what I am I cannot say. You cannot define what this I amness is.
Any disturbance ?

Q:Yes, I’m feeling uncomfortable…

M:Don’t feel it should not. Sometimes you feel: “Well I’d be fine if only…” Today we spoke one example: a friend rang “Allo, I wanted to say hello, how are you ?” – I’m fine, and you ? -Actually I’m still at work and it has been a very stressful day and I have another couple of hours to do, but it doesn’t matter because I’ll be at home and have a bath, and everything will be ok… – I said no, no, don’t let your mind cheat you out of three hours ! why say “…and then” ? We’re always doing this thing. “When the kids grow up, then I’ll start living again, I’ll have my life back !” “If only I could sort this mortgage…” When and then, always, this promise, you see. It’s a thief. So I said: No, right now, you are. And instantly his response was: Thank you. He just needed this to catch again. It was enough, the argument stopped, you know. So sometimes this bubbling is going on, if you don’t carress them, you can ignore it. It’s like if you’re cooking soup or some dhal is bubbling away. You turn the fire off, -still bubbling away. But eventually everything will calm down because the source, the fuel is exhausted, you see. So this unplugging is only your conviction: Whatever is arising, no, it’s not me. Still, bll bll bll bll ! It will slow down. But you won’t be waiting.

Q:I need you reminding me.

M:No, you don’t need it. You enjoy it. You don’t need anything. You enjoy being reminded. Thank you.