Dialogues: Enlightenment


Question:Mooji, is it really possible to become or to gain enlightenment ? Has there be anyone who has become enlightened or awake through coming to Satsang and if so, could you say who ? ( All laugh )

Mooji:In truth it is not possible to become enlightened as you put it because no one is there as such to become enlightened in the first place. The firm recognition or realisation that there isn’t a ‘somebody’ in reality to gain enlightenment, and that there can never be an entity at any time, either now or in the future, to gain any such state, is what amounts to enlightenment. This direct realisation occur and become revealed, confirmed and convincing truth through the process of self enquiring. ‘Self-enquiry’, also called atma-vichara, is one effective means of exposing the unreality of the ‘I-concept’, or ego, ordinarily felt to be the fact of oneself, leaving the pure immutable Self as the single an perfect reality. This is the ultimate truth.
You ask: ‘Is there anyone who through attending Satsang has become awake’. This has already been addressed in my previous statement but I will further add here that there has been and continues to be the constant recognition of this fact that the ego identity is a myth, a fictitious character. That individuality as such is an expression of pure consciousness/beingness and not the fact or definition of that Beingness. That oneself remains behind as the witness or the noticing of the phenomena arising spontaneously in consciousness. That ones true self is formless and nameless presence only which arises or shines as peace, joy and happiness felt as loving contentment. When this recognition occurs within each individual point or expression of consciousness known as a person, that state is called ‘awakening’ or ‘enlightenment’.
You ask that I point out if there is such a person present here ? In common language I will say a number of persons here have arrived at this point of clear seeing/being beyond mere intellectual or academic understanding or acceptance. However, the mental tendencies and identification aren’t instantly or completely destroyed and the ego-sense, posing as the seat of reality, though expose through enquiry as mere illusion, continues to appear; this is natural. The duty and challenge here is to repeatedly bring this I-individuality sense back into the heart/source whenever it arises and by training the attention to stay in the source, which is your true self, it gradually merges in the source and become the source itself.
Finally, who could the ‘I’ be who will claim ‘I’ve got it’ or ‘I am a realised person’. Who or what can be the possessor of enlightenment ? Isn’t it the same ego ? Do you see my point ?
However, some masters have indeed declared and affirmed themselves as the one pure, qualityless reality and have spoken so from pure, direct ego-less knowledge/conviction. This is also correct in my view and is most refreshing, authoritative and natural, so that we may know it is not possible to frame or limit the pure self by any human standard or logic.

Q:But I feel myself as a ‘someone’, I cannot feel myself as a ‘no-one’.

M:Again you put this ‘myself’ as an object of perception. How can you be an object ? An object must have a perceiving subject. If the subject is also perceived it automatically becomes an object and must have a deeper perceiving subject. Do you see ? You cannot be any object perceived, you must be the perceiver/subject. Who or what are you that perceives ? Take hold of that. Your statement ‘I feel myself as a someone’ contains three aspects: I, my feelings and the someone that I take myself to be. This someone is merely your idea of yourself, not your real self. And your feelings, merely the feeling concerning this idea of yourself. Finally there is the you who is the subject/perceiver of this observation. Am I right ?


M:Who or what are you exactly ?

Q:I am me, myself !

M:And what exactly is that ?

Q:Me ! Or rather my knowledge of myself.

M:So, not the body ?

Q:No, I know I am not the body.

M:How do you know you are not the body ?

Q:I can see my body and I just know that is not what I am, although sometimes I feel I am that too.

M:Ok, fine. Can we go back to your answer that you are your knowledge of yourself ? Are you sure it is the knowledge of yourself and not merely the knowledge of the idea of yourself or your personality ? How did you come to know yourself ? How are you knowing yourself here and now ?

Q:When I began perceiving the other things and people.

M:Yes, how does perceiving otherness brings you to yourself.

Q:Because I know I am perceiving. That I must be there in order to perceive.

M:Therefore any object perceived cannot be you, am I right ?


M:Exactly ! Very good ! Now who or what exactly is it that perceives or notices ?

Q:Me ! This !

M:Is ‘me’ the same as ‘this’ ?


M:And again what is that ? What is its quality, its substance ? What makes it you exactly ? Look and tell me. Is it some particular you ? A person ? As distinct from a she or he or him or them ?

Q:Well yesÉnoÉit is vague, I don’t quite see.

M:Remain compose, do not drift off, be steady and look. What are you here ? In this looking can you say ?

Q:I am not any person or anything, but I don’t know what I am. There is nothing there, I cannot answer that. There is a feeling of not wanting to look, of tiredness, resistance and irritability.

M:Ok. Don’t engage in any evaluation, don’t touch anything, just be one with that noticing. Stay here without trying.
(There is a long pause here)
You seem puzzled what are you puzzled by ?

Q:There is just this blank.

M:What is witnessing the blank ?
(the questioner looks up and smiles, eyes fixed on Mooji)

M:Where is this smile coming from ?

Q:I don’t know, there is a feeling of relief, space and peace, a kind of lightness.

M:A kind of ?

Q:No. Lightness, space and peace.

M:This lightness and peace shines where there is no one. This is peace. This is real joy. This is pure love. Only now don’t clutch at this. Don’t own it or claim it. Remain the witness.

Q:Yes, yes (smiling) I see I am just the witness here. Thank you, thank you. (she clasps her hands in the traditional Indian way of greeting or gratitude).

M:Don’t go just yet..
(few moments pass)
Now drop being the witness.

Q:I am confused.

M:No, you are not confused. Confusion is being witnessed. Don’t identified with that. What remains ? Don’t touch anything, even the witness, don’t be a ‘witness-er’. Witnessing without witness-er, do you understand ?


M:Who is understanding ?

Q:No one, just understanding.

M:Very nice. Very happy to meet you. Now from this placeless place in total emptiness as emptiness, beyond the concept of emptiness, you effortlessly are. You didn’t become this or gain this because there is no one here to gain anything. Out of, yet within this indescribable awareness the consciousness rises and shines as I-ness perceiving. And whatever arises here are mere apparent forms of I-consciousness being perceived.

Q:Thank you.

M:You are welcome.